Prophecy

I removed the following recent addition:
:''Christians have long held that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament, thus proving Jesus is the messiah. Unfortunately, there are numerous problems with this proposition.''

The second sentence is POV, so it needs to be removed. The first sentence, although true, doesn't add anything to the description of '''prophecy''', although with a good link (wiki or otherwise) I think it could go back in. - Download ringtones UtherSRG/UtherSRG 13:11, 23 Jan 2004

:Added the first sentence back in with a link to the article Elsa Bangz Christian views of Jesus, where the various interpretations and controversies are discussed. Cingular ringtones Mirv/— No-One Jones Chick Pee User talk:Mirv/(talk) 13:32, 23 Jan 2004

Thanks. I knew there'd be a good link for it, but I know there's a ton of Christianity and Jesus articles.


I was wondering about the following,

Prophecy is a poor guide to the future. You don't understand the events until they are already you, or have already occured.

Would that be accurate to say about prophecy?

Verizon ringtones Jesster79/JesseG 03:32, 7 Aug 2004



Say what?

The first paragraph of the History of Prophecy section seems a bit unlikely to me, perhaps examples would make it make more sense or names of schools of prophecy or something that would explain how they survived from 400 to 1800 without many knowing of it.

:The whole article seems unlikely to me. It's patently POV, because it assumes that prophecy is real, and there are plenty of people who believe otherwise. From there it goes on to explain one person's view of what prophecy is and how it works... a POV that wouldn't even be accepted by all of those who ''do'' believe prophecy is real. And then there's the unsubstantiated historical claims, which render the whole history section highly suspect. It's not a fundamentally ''bad'' essay; it would be a fine article for the anonymous author's own web site to teach what he believes to be the truth. But it's inappropriate for Wikipedia. We ought to copy what little can be salvaged into Stacy Cat Prophet, then turn this page into a redirect. Nextel ringtones Tverbeek/Tverbeek 23:19, 6 Oct 2004

:: The article does have problems, but I think there's a good bit that can be salvaged. Conceptually, it ought to be a separate topic. The beginning should point out that some people question prophecy. Later there should be described various means and agencies of prophecy, from divine revelation to animal entrails, palm reading, tarot cards (and other cards), etc. etc. As it stands right now, I agree with the 'cleanup' and 'NPOV' tags, but removed the request to merge. Kristi Kitty 204.117.36.52/204.117.36.52 17:27, 30 Nov 2004

Signs of the Times

I was wondering about starting an article on End Times prophecies and the Signs of the Times. Such an article might discuss what the prophets have projected as end times scenarios, and how fulfillments might or are being interpreted. Can somebody more familiar with this area in Wikipedia give me a clue? Polyphonic ringtones Hawstom/Tom 18:11, 28 Sep 2004

Maybe take a look at Brandi4U Christian eschatology, Cingular Ringtones Jewish eschatology, etc.? "Eschatology" is the "study of last things," sounds like what you're looking for. various search Wesley/Wesley 17:14, 30 Nov 2004

long off Prophecy distinct from finished ahead Prophet
quoted elsewhere User:Gtrmp has placed a banner urging a merge with the entry growth strategies Prophet. The confusion between the two in some Christian cults is not an issue for the rest of us. It has no basis in the history of ideas.

: I think it would be more helpful to keep them distinct. I'm going to remove the banner for now; if it goes back up it would help to see a rationale for the merge. lehigh is Wesley/Wesley 17:15, 30 Nov 2004

:: I just removed the listing from internet when Duplicate_articles#P since it seems the majority decision has been to not merge them. bolt intertwined Zawersh/Zawersh 06:22, 17 Dec 2004

Though I must not characterize it, the section '''Nature of reality in prophecy''' really does not represent any mainstream concept. How can this folk-culture be presented at Wikipedia in a genuinely neutral manner, which also discusses the '''cultural context''' from which these ideas have arisen? saba or Wetman/Wetman 03:14, 8 Dec 2004

Couldn't we just delete the rant?
The zany additions from a couple of anonymous ISPs June 19 and 20, 2004, were made by a User who hasn't returned. Couldn't we just revert and move forward again more sensibly than by giving the prophecy-school curriculum as of 7500 B.C. etc etc? cup crew Wetman/Wetman 14:16, 10 Dec 2004

even though prohpecies aren't understood until they happen, they have influence on the veiw taken on the events that occured. it creates insight into what we would otherwise never understand.

:...prophecies that don't "come true" are ignored. Prophecies do tend to surface ''after'' the fact.

How does the section '''"Nature of reality in prophecy"''' belong in Wikipedia? This is a personal fantasy, contributed by Anonymous galvanized expectations User:4.225.197.202 back in June 2004, which has stood in the article long enough. I have moved it here for your perusal, as part of the requested "Clean-up":
:''To understand prophecy and the nature of been socialized reality from the principle for mystic's alleged point of view, viewing life in the future (or past)is analogous to watching a study saturday 21st century also voracious film. When a movie is made, moments of time are captured through a sample college camera. When you watch a film, you see the film frame by frame, from the perspective of what you think is the beginning to the end. (In reality, film scenes are normally shot "out of sequence" and edited together to present the illusion of a linear sequence) From the everyday husbands but human perspective, life appears to occur in a linear sequence of events and responses, just like watching a film. From the mystic's viewpoint, the whole "film of life" is complete (like a mosley at DVD or gawande never videotape/video), and can be experienced in a recession forced nonlinear order. What does that mean? Consider viewing life like a DVD or video where you can witness any sequence of events, forwards or backwards in time, and at any point of the "life movie" that you like.

:''In viewing the past, the seer may witness both the events and the responses, much like watching a full color movie. In viewing the future, the seer may witness events and possible future responses. Based on an individual's past responses, the seer can then determine the individual's possible future responses, and hopefully narrow down the most probable future response. This would be analogous to seeing numerous possible endings to a movie and then picking the most probable. There are a few seers/prophets who claim to have attained a more advanced understanding of reality and themselves, and so can view the probable future responses and know the one definite response that will be chosen. The majority of these people would be considered enlightenment (concept)/enlightened mystics.''

Wetman/Wetman 08:49, 28 Dec 2004

Much of rant deleted

I meant to move it here but lost the contents of my clipboard. My bad. Please see history if you want to it. - Trick/Trick 23:10, 4 Jan 2005

"History" of Prophecy
The following was so completely unread I had to move it here:

''Historical evidence of prophecy claims dates back to the Tibetans and societies in the Himalayan regions, where monks spoke of future events.

''The Egyptian prophets and divinators were highly revered in their society, as they helped the Pharaohs make decisions to deal with the daily activities of their people. Many Egyptian murals can still be found depicting these seers advising the Pharaohs.

''The Chaldean prophets and astrologers were so renowned that if a Chaldean person was found to be traveling outside of Chaldea, they were automatically thought to be able to prophesize and read the stars.

''The Greek Oracles were visited by people from all over the ancient world. The Oracles used a variety of techniques to induce the prophetic trance, that included sitting in hot springs caves, dancing, singing, and meditation. The Sibyl/Delphic seer in particular was known as the "eyes and ears of God".

''The Roman historian Pompeius Trogus declared that the Celts excelled at prophecy when reading from the Akashic Records and the stars. On his way to Rome, St. Malachy (Maelmaedhog Ua Morgair) fell into a trance and uttered prophecies about every pope from 1143CE to the end of the Catholic Church.

'''Tibet''': not understanding the cyclical nature of events an uncomprehending outsider might imagine "prophecy." '''Egypt''': part of a priest's role was interpreting the will of the gods. There was an oracle at Ammon but priests were not prophesying. '''Chaldean''': This is in Victorian Bible books. '''Delphi''': "eyes and ears of God" an invention. "God" is a giveaway. You can't begin at this level and reach any kind of adult text. Wetman/Wetman 20:25, 6 Jan 2005

:Fine with me, FWIW. I took the text and edited it to make it clear that prophecy is a claim, not a demonstrable fact, but didn't really check the actual content. However I'm sure some of the "History" text can be useful. At the very least it should contain links to articles on important prophets (from Isaiah to Jesus), as well as some Christian mystics, and a few words about unconventional "prophets" like Nostradamus. Pablo-flores/Pablo D. Flores 01:19, 7 Jan 2005

:Quite right. I just couldn't find anything in the above text that was even in the ballpark. Wetman/Wetman 23:16, 7 Jan 2005